Obama administration forcing new gun buyers to declare race, ethnicity

The Obama administration quietly has been forcing new gun buyers to declare their race and ethnicity, a policy change that critics say provides little law enforcement value while creating the risk of privacy intrusions and racial profiling.

With little fanfare, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in 2012 amended its Form 4473 — the transactional record the government requires gun purchasers and sellers to fill out when buying a firearm — to identify buyers as either Hispanic, Latino or not. Then a buyer must check his or her race: Indian, Asian, black, Pacific Islander or white.

67 Comments - what are your thoughts?

  • rockyvnvmc says:

    The Founding Fathers on the Second Amendment

    “I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

    “A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …”
    Richard Henry Lee
    writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

    “The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them.”
    Zachariah Johnson
    Elliot’s Debates, vol. 3 “The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution.”

    “… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms”
    Philadelphia Federal Gazette
    June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
    Article on the Bill of Rights

    “And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …”
    Samuel Adams
    quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, “Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State”

    The Founding Fathers on Arms

    “Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
    George Washington
    First President of the United States

    “The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.”
    Thomas Paine

    “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
    Richard Henry Lee
    American Statesman, 1788

    “The great object is that every man be armed.” and “Everyone who is able may have a gun.”
    Patrick Henry
    American Patriot

    “Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”
    Patrick Henry
    American Patriot

    “Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not.”
    Thomas Jefferson
    Third President of the United States

    “The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … ”
    Thomas Jefferson
    letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

    “The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.”
    Alexander Hamilton
    The Federalist Papers at 184-8

  • ArtPope says:

    There is a fine line between protecting us from criminals and protecting our civil liberties. As for me, I don’t mind checking a box regarding my race. It is what it is and I can’t change it. Truth is they can cross reference the information between gun registrations and other forms of identification to determine our race if that is important. Folks we have to make trade off’s in life and we should be trying to help our law enforcement people, not fighting them.

  • I Seigel says:

    Would it be better if they simply asked if you’re Muslim or not? Would that make you feel better?

  • LroF5LFjiB says:

    I’ll buy from private sources!

  • Martin Mayberry says:

    I’ll just check them all!

    1. Guest says:

      So , then , they shouldn ‘t need to fingerprint you ‘ ?

      1. Martin Mayberry says:

        Why finger print me ? I have done nothing wrong.the back ground check would prove that!

  • BlueViolets says:

    They got the race thing wrong. You are either Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid or Capoid. Those are the races of man on earth. What they are asking for is your ancestry or country of origin. But then we must be sensitive and politically correct so as not to hurt anyone’s feelings or offend anyone.

    1. ArtPope says:

      Being sensitive to others is an honorable trait.

  • robocop33 says:

    Actually that is not a bad idea at all. It helps to provide a description of the individual who bought and is in possession of that firearm.

    1. patriotism-matters says:

      BS it’s none of their business.

    2. f8tule says:

      It is none of their business… They are getting ready to come take our guns, and looks like they will be enlisting the illegal’s help in doing so.. seeing as the farce in our white house is an illegal himself..
      they started doing this on job applications too… Latino or not…

      I check both… I am two.. white and Indian.. my family comes from Irish and Indian (not red dot) background….. ooh, was that a little racist???? oh well,, neither Indians are a race… their are only 3 races.. White, black, and asian… .Look at their features…. everything else is just a mix of the three….

      No one needs to know,, I am telling you now, it is a ploy.. a white man bought a gun.. he is now an enemy of the state… A mexican bought a gun.. let’s recruit him…

      Just wait, if we let them get away with this, next will be your political affiliation… Conservatives need not apply for a gun… you WILL BE DENIED… for you are the terrorists, not ISIS or ILLEGAL-ALIENS, but the white Christian male who believes in our GREAT CONSTITUTION OF THESE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA..

      think I am crazy, let this keep going and you’ll see..

      at the very least,, they will know who to look for, and what door to kick in so they can take the white man’s guns…and then enslave every American… I love this country still and will be writing my Senators from Texas.. One good, and Cornyn bad…

    3. festmatt5440 says:

      So ;then there is no need to be ‘ fingerprinted ‘ ?

  • budgienation says:

    If anyone believes this horseshit, you are a willing tool of FUXNOISE and all the rest of the ‘angry, old, white men, that comprise the only group left who votes Rethuglican! Where did they pull this story from? Rush Limpball’s ass? Sure smells like it….

    1. Ed Cunningham says:

      The foulness you smell, is your breath blowing back in your face.

      1. budgienation says:

        This story was ‘cooked up’ by the Washington Times, a paper that goes back even further than fox as being a right wing mouthpiece, having been bought by the ‘moonies’ in the eighties. When these guys, blabbing in the same echo chamber, come up with the same stuff and the right wing noise machine picks up on it, it is not surprising, I don’t know why I bother. Arguing with a ‘bagger’ such as yourself, is like playing chess with a pigeon. Even though you may be a better chess player, all the pigeon is going to do is knock all of the pieces over, crap on the board and strut around like he’s ‘won’. Finally, the confusion that you have, when confronted with the facts, is called ‘cognitive dissonance’, it’s kind of a panic response when facts, that cannot be disputed, butt up against your cherished ‘beliefs’. That, or your inability to distinguish between limpballs ass gas and ‘my breath’ blowing back in my face, is, sadly, an example of your ‘recto-cranial inversion’…..in other words….your own head up your ass! Good night, sweet troll……

        1. Raymond J Ambrozaitis says:

          By now we should realize that this website has one purpose to liberate fools from their money. It will post anything to accomplish that end. It is however amusing to watch how they get space in fools heads rent free with their idiotic scare tactics and stories, isn’t it?

          1. patriotism-matters says:

            Yet here you are!

          2. Raymond J Ambrozaitis says:

            Yes here I am watching asshats make fools of themselves and it costs me not one penny

          3. patriotism-matters says:

            I’m confused, you’re a lefty on a Constitutional website. oh I just figured it out, you’re a paid scumbag. Ozbama for America Inc. On his knob er. I mean on the job. Freudian slip.
            Before you start provided script both Washington gangs suck democrips and rebloodlicans.
            Hell of a way to supplement your retirement gramps. You amateur Cointel creeps are a hoot

          4. Raymond J Ambrozaitis says:

            This coming from a Koch sucker? My my my! The right is the experts on wide stances and little boys not the left. Where have you been for years and years? As for your idiocy it amuses me that is worth more than anyone could pay me if I need it. Nowhere else could I find such a clown circus as you ignorant asshats

          5. patriotism-matters says:

            You’re as sharp as a crayon old man. Perhaps if I tupe slow. I’m not a rebloodlican nor democrip gang member.
            Unlike you I don’t need a gang to validate my manhood. Unlike you I have a manhood. Dopey.

          6. Raymond J Ambrozaitis says:

            That is simply stupid I am here no gang no support as you have already said moron on a site where I am outnumbered and not supposed to be but you stupidly suggest I am here with a gang. Perhaps you are confused? signed on with yet another name and fooling only yourself? So by all means “tupe” slowly whatever “tuoe ” means if it helps you to focus

          7. festmatt5440 says:

            You spell it this way , C O K E ” ; ” asshat ‘ .

          8. Raymond J Ambrozaitis says:

            Would someone else please tell this asshat it was so nice that he followed my advice and changed to another name on here but please clue the dumb shit in as to how the Bros spell their names I am laughing way to damn hard!!

          9. Raymond J Ambrozaitis says:

            Oh and where the fuck do you get off thinking that a Constitutional site belongs solely to morons such as yourself? Liberals have added more to the Constitution that you and your moronic theories ever have

          10. patriotism-matters says:

            You are on top of things pappy aren’t ya? Ha ha, I’m betting its the neighbors dog.
            Tell ya what, type ONE thing Liberals have ADDED to the Constitution and I’ll admit your superiority. Remember you said Liberal.
            Take your pills it might help ya stay up past 8:00.

          11. Raymond J Ambrozaitis says:

            I would prove your ignorance by listing things but you seem to do well enough to prove my point without that Thank you so much!!

          12. patriotism-matters says:

            Got it, you know you’re full of shit. So does everyone else reading this now.

          13. Raymond J Ambrozaitis says:

            It would benefit your case if you secretly sign on as someone who supports you when you speak for everyone as if you are of some consequence

          14. festmatt5440 says:

            your ‘ S t u – p i d ” , is showing .

          15. festmatt5440 says:

            ” I g n o r a n t ‘ F o o l ‘ .

          16. festmatt5440 says:

            ” Little ‘ men , with ‘ little ‘ minds ‘ using ‘little words ‘ .

          17. Raymond J Ambrozaitis says:

            Yes I have a sample of that and for you I will post it. OK liberals, so now that we have a government again, I thought I’d suggest a little relaxing entertainment for us all. Grab some popcorn and a cold beverage and join me in the spectator sport called, the Republican Civil War, taking place on John Boehner’s Facebook wall.

            Sit back and enjoy….

            Grow some balls!!! You rat-bastard sellout


            I am flying my Confederate Flag upside down and at half-staff because of RINOs like Boehner who caved to a Kenyan Hawaiian Muslim Atheist Bankster Rastafarian Communist.

            Hey dumb ass. You no longer have our support. Don’t try to convince yourself otherwise.

            Drop dead traitor. Anyone that supports a 17 trillion dollar debt, no to climb more, aiding every Islamist regime in the middle east, a so called healthcare plan that destroys private healthcare and has 20 new taxes breaking the middle class back and is designed for nothing more than total government control is an entitlement minded American-hating uninformed LEECH!

            I would call you a snake, but at least a snake has a spine!


            May you rot in hell you sell-out piece of trash!

            Are you kidding me right now?? Go Fuck Yourself Boehner!

            You pussed out again, didn’t you? I’d rather have Tip Oneal as speaker of the house than you right now.

            You are disgusting! RINO!

        2. patriotism-matters says:

          LIAR troll!

        3. festmatt5440 says:

          YOU ‘ ;know ‘ , N O T H I N G “

    2. raffaelecafagna says:

      It is not a joke , it is for real ; you being uninformed and going left proves it ; had you been a conservative and less big mouth ,you could have done a better reading or research ; because it is the truth . So , Please , do inform yourself ; Thanks and Bless you always .

    3. nevergivein says:

      and, How do you know what Rush Limbaugh’s ass smell like. Sounds like you have been there a time or two.

      1. budgienation says:

        Nope. Just heard him quoted or heard him while spinning the radio dial. Lemme tell ya something, ‘nevergivein’, you don’t have to be a farmer to know when you’ve stepped in BULLSHIT!

        1. patriotism-matters says:

          Or that you’re full of it.

          1. budgienation says:

            No, clown, only that you’re ‘full of it’, and, as I said before, I’m glad that I will outlast your bullshit, I will be able to boast, on this post, how mother ‘effiging’ stupid you, and all your troll buddies, are. So, consider this a ‘haaa, haaa’ in the future!

          2. patriotism-matters says:

            The average lifespan for a budgie is between 5 – 8 years if the bird is well fed and kept in clean conditions. Life span depends on genetics
            Guess your time will be up in about 2014 and 2016 being that you have lived in BS and are inbred. Got you on film in your un-natural environment with your sister.
            Your dismissed.

          3. budgienation says:

            Hey, “Patriot”, so my nom de plume is “Budgienation”. So, what? I happen to keep parakeets, aka ‘budgies’ because I’m fond of birds. For another thing, I’m not bald, I’ve probably got more hair than you, and I don’t have a sister. Or green skin or a hydrocephalus shaped skull. By the way, “Patriotism-Matters”, what’s with the ‘rah, rah’, nom de plume of your own? Gotta prove you’re “USA ALL THE WAY”? Why don’tcha get a Gadsden flag tattooed on your dick? That would sure excite the ladies at the next militia meeting, wouldn’t it now? And, by the way, Red Bull is for pussies. I drink COFFEE!! And, you are right about the parakeet life span although you never know, my oldest, who just passed this spring lived to 14 Great little guy. Had one hell of a vocabulary too. And you missed it again, as I am neither ‘inbred’ or live in BS. Have a nice time in your parent’s basement, playing with your guns or playing with yourself, which is probably more your speed. BTW, asswipe, it’s ‘you’re’ as in ‘you are’ dismissed, not ‘your’ dismissed. What’s the matter ‘patriot’? ‘Hume Skoooled’ perhaps? I’l bet you are (you’re) the valedictorian of your whole trailer park. No, wait, that can’t be, trailers don’t have basements. Maybe you just dug a hole for yourself, as you do every time you try to be witty…..

          4. patriotism-matters says:

            “Methinks thou dost protest too much”

          5. budgienation says:

            “Methinks thou shouldst hasten to yon river and walketh eastward till thy hat floats” Enough wit for this morning…..I must hasten to secure sustenance. Fair Maiden of the kitchen! Fruit of the noble hen prepared ‘overeth easily’ and a rasher of bacon, washed down with a large coffee if you would be so kind….

        2. nevergivein says:

          Apparently you can’t tell the difference since, BULLSHIT is the only thing that Odumbo, and his ilk spew.

          1. budgienation says:

            “Odumbo”, oh, how witty! Here’s a message to you, ‘nevergivein’ and all the rest of you fucking conservative trolls: You are all going down the tubes with Limpballs, and all the rest of them. Have a nice time on the ash heap of political history along with the ‘whigs’ and the ‘know nothings’, okay? In a way, you have given me the greatest reason to live a long and healthy life. It is for the immeasurable pleasure of saying, ‘aha, I told you! You were so wrong and now even you know it!” Fuck you, fuck you all, in perpetuity!

          2. nevergivein says:

            Brilliant Simply Brilliant. Must be a liberal arts professor

    4. disqus_Ls1ucoLATl says:

      let me step aside while you get over yourself….

    5. LroF5LFjiB says:

      Sounds like you are one of the angry godless liberal derelicts on Cookaid!

    6. jdmurchie says:

      So…how far Rush’s ass has your nose been for you to be such an expert on what his ass smells like? You bonehead..

    7. desertcelt says:

      Go read a copy of form 4473. It won’t cure your stupidity, but each long voyage starts with the first step.

      1. budgienation says:

        Well, I went to the atf.gov site and ‘lo and behold’, it does ask for race/ethnicity and gender. So does a census form. So what? Are you afraid they’ll find out you married a cousin or something? So, they ask for race/ethnicity/gender. I don’t see that big of a problem. And, if you’re the kind of gun nut I think you are, you’d probably want the ‘gummint’ to know which ‘darkies’ are ‘packing’, right? Screw off, buddy…..

        1. desertcelt says:

          So profiling is now OK because it doesn’t apply to you. AS for race and ethnicity, I’ll take any armed “darkie” over a white liberal democrat. At least they have some racial pride and their blood isn’t pink and watery.

          1. budgienation says:

            It’s the same as a census form. You fill those out don’t you? Or are you one of those ‘Sovereign Citizen’ types that sees ‘gummint conspirators’ behind every bush? And, for the record I’m A+ with lots of iron, so my blood is just as it should be, red like the stripes in the stars and stripes, not ‘pink and watery’, or for that matter ‘yellow’ like a Gadsden flag.

          2. desertcelt says:

            AS a matter of fact the elements took care of the last unanswered census form your masters left on my front door. Ten years before that my Doberman sent them packing. Now run along and watch Rachel Maddow like an obedient little Bolshevik.

          3. budgienation says:

            Bravo, BRAVO, desertcelt! So, the very ‘heavens above’, opened up on the accursed form from the ‘Zionist Occupational Government’, and turned the hated form to the pulp from which it came! Gott Mit Uns! Not only that, but you let your dog in on the fun and he sent the odious minion of tyranny running for his very life, no doubt missing a portion of gabardine from the seat of his pants. Mark me, you’re going to spoil that proud pooch if you keep that up! I don’t watch Maddow, I find her a bit too ‘snarky’. I prefer Chris Matthews and Lawrence O’ Donnell. And, I am not now, nor have I ever been a ‘Bolshie’. Go feed your hellhound and leave the witty alliteration to me. Why don’t you run along to your Bund meeting. I hear they’re screening a new movie tonight. “Kristalnacht….now the fun begins”

          4. desertcelt says:

            You’ve inspired me sisterboy! I’ll polish my jackboots to put a nice shine on a liberal skull. Just curious, when you kneel for your morning prayer do you face D.C., Mecca or Martha’s Vineyard? As a matter of fact, I’ve sent money to Israel and hope they kick your enlightened Islamic friend’s asses into the middle of next week. Not a very good track record for someone you accuse of being a Nazi is it? Worse yet, I love those Jewish Koch brothers!

          5. budgienation says:

            The posting you replied to was a ‘goof’, and needed a sense of humor to understand. The stuff about your dog, “Hellhound”, and the missing portion of gabardine from the trousers of the ‘minion of tyranny’ and all that should have clued you in. It’s called ‘subtlety’ and I suppose it takes a bit of practice to develop the ability to appreciate it. I don’t ‘face DC, Mecca, or Martha’s Vineyard when praying. Additionally I support Israel’s right to defend itself and I don’t have any Muslim friends. That being said, most, and I’m talking 95% of the Muslim community has no time for Jihads or terrorism and are just as appalled as we are of the recent acts of barbarism. I’m sorry I don’t fit into your neat little box that classifies everyone who doesn’t shout along with you as an enemy of freedom. It’s depressing to me as I remember when people with differing opinions could debate and even get stuff done. As a recent example, Reagan and “Tip” O’Neil”. Try to get a sense of humor, too. It brightens up a bleak day like a big ol’ ray of sunshine. Do try to get one, or maybe go on Ebay or Craigslist and buy one. It’s a good investment.

          6. desertcelt says:

            As a collector of militaria, I’m well aware that the Huns liked gabardine styled by none other than Hugo Boss, so your sense of humor wasn’t lost on me. Speaking of neat little boxes, you’ve aleady tried to play the race and anti Semite cards to no avail. The 95% you refer to are fence sitters and silent enablers. They go for the flavor of the month.

          7. budgienation says:

            The ‘Flavor of the Month’ in an Arab “Baskin Robins” is Hummus and Goat Cheese Ripple. And, if you don’t like it, the call you an infidel and cut off your right hand as a ‘warning’. BTW, those Baskin Robins only have 1 flavor, as Allah commanded.

          8. desertcelt says:

            Read Winston Churchill’s thoughts on Islam. I’m interested in what you think. He wasn’t exactly a tooothless, uneducated hillbilly.

          9. budgienation says:

            I never said, or meant to imply, that Sir Winston was a ‘toothless, uneducated, hillbilly. First of all, he came from a family of some means, so he wouldn’t have been a ‘hillbilly’ if he tried, he’d have been, at least, a “Mountain Williams”. I’m aware that he was deeply distrustful of Islam. Let’s face it, they aren’t exactly the most trustworthy bunch. Despite what’s on the maps, they really aren’t ‘nations’, the way we perceive them, but rather a collection of nomadic tribes, constantly warring on each other, ready to cut each other’s throats. The only thing that unites any of them is hatred of ‘the infidel’. I mean really, that’s their history, that’s what motivates them. Of course, even though justified, his distrust of Islam was partly motivated by the distrust that all Colonialists have for ‘the locals’. After all, they’re ‘white boots’ marching in either red, yellow, or brown lands. You walk down the street out there, especially an ill illuminated one, and you’d be worried about a dagger in your back as well. I guess you didn’t find the Baskin Robins reference, about ‘Hummus and Goat Cheese Ripple’ too funny. Well, I’ll ‘try, try, again’…

          10. desertcelt says:

            OK, I acknowledege your intelligence and wit, so lets bury the hatchet on insults. Obviously you are a well educated person as am I, but do you honestly believe in the 95% business on Islam? Open nearly any page in the Quran and its about killing the infidel. I believe Sir Winston was spot on.

    8. festmatt5440 says:

      Go back to your closet ‘ ; troll ‘ ; where you were always kept ‘.

  • Ddenney1 says:

    I thought profiling was a bad thing?? Oh well being born in Texas I’m native AMERICAN!!!!

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