States move to ban aborted fetal tissue from medical research

September 18, 2015

Aggressive state efforts to ban the use of fetal tissue in research is alarming some scientists who say such measures will set back efforts to cure the world’s deadliest diseases, including cancer, diabetes and Alzheimer’s.

But lawmakers in states like California and Wisconsin, which are deliberating whether to make their state laws even tougher than federal restrictions, say ending the practice of harvesting organs from aborted fetuses is a moral and ethical imperative.

They say the summer release of nine undercover videos featuring Planned Parenthood representatives and others talking candidly about obtaining and transferring fetal body parts to laboratories has sparked outrage among their constituencies, and has “pulled back the curtain” on what they say is a gruesome business.

75 Comments - what are your thoughts?

  • Elizabeth Craine says:

    There has been no success with fetal research. But there have been some sucess with adult stem cells.

  • Pam says:

    I lost a baby at eight weeks. My ob/gyn (who was one of the best in the county, has since retired) told me that sometimes something is just not right with its formation and the mother’s body rejects it. My ex-sister-in-law had something “off” in her body. She miscarried 4 babies varying from 8 to 12 weeks. My parents (back in the 50’s) wanted to have 9 kids. They had two and stopped trying after number 7 (my little sister, Doris) was stillborn. My husband should have also been one of nine, but he was, instead, one of four.
    My point is, my family cannot be that exceptional in our history of loss. If “Big Pharma” wants “fetal tissue” for research, why are they not using these little lost beings? I know, for me, it might have eased my pain a bit if someone had come to me and said, “We can take your loss and attempt to find ways to stop bad things from happening to others”.

  • Bigmanuger says:

    Winning The Future ! California leaning towards what has been a cause from the right side of the ruling class! Something is wrong , watch for the rope a dope.

  • brtw says:

    Good 4 them! I the so called “research” w/ fetal stem cells were successful in helping to cure anything they’d be crowing from the roof tops. Haven’t heard any success stories have U? This practice is just a scam to get US taxpayers to fund stem cell research. There are plenty of sources for this research w/o killing full term babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • joe says:

    Our nation is sick anyway since abortion on demand was legalized via Roe vs Wade. After that landmark decision, it became legal to murder an infant so long as birth had not yet occurred.
    IOW, as long as the baby was even partially inside the woman, it could be killed without legal consequence. Once the birth was completed, killing the baby was “murder”.
    Some justice, eh?

    1. I Seigel says:

      Why are you deliberately lying about this? Just like Carly did in the debate. It was never legal to abort a full-term baby unless the mother was in imminent danger of death. 20 weeks is the law. And the videos that Carly talked about – live fetuses kicking on the table – are lies and imagination. They don’t exist.

      Sure, stop the now-legal sale of fetal tissue is you want. But why threaten all of Planned Parenthood over it, and why shutdown the government over it?

      And if they do shut it down again, it better be the whole friggin thing this time. No Social Security checks, no Medicaid, no VA benefits or medical, no Border Patrol.

      1. Lou Ann Strozyk says:

        I Seigel, Carly did not lie. You need to know the truth, so Google Abby Johnson. She was a director at Planned Parenthood and knows absolutely what the truth is. She lived it for years. Those videos do exist. Wake up and smell the coffee in the morning. Abby took part in this grisly business. I’m not much of a bible reading person, so I can’t quote any verses from it and name them, but somewhere in the bible, it says, “You may not do evil, that good may come of it.” So that makes scientific research evil if they are using aborted fetuses body parts to make our lives better.

        1. I Seigel says:

          Assuming for the moment you’re right about everything, why shouldn’t Congress pass a law to make the selling of ANY fetal tissue illegal? (It IS legal now.) Why defund all of PP? Why shut down the govt?

          And now learning a bit more about Abby Johnson, she took part in only one completely legal abortion of a 13-week old fetus. She didn’t like it and quit her job. Maybe people can’t take working in an Amarillo slaughterhouse either. Or a dentist’s office. Or on a tall ladder or in a septic tank.

      2. joe says:

        @I Seigel:
        I remind you of partial-birth abortions, legal in the U.S.A. until President Bush was **finally** presented with a bill from the Congress (in 2007, only 8 years ago!) that was designed to ban that atrocity.

        In the 1990s, many states, like Nebraska, were passing bans on partial-birth abortions during that era. Congress also had approved national bans on partial-birth abortion in 1996 and 1997. President Bill Clinton vetoed both bans.
        The Stenberg v. Carhart case decided in 2000 by the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Nebraska’s ban on partial-birth abortions unconstitutional on the basis that it didn’t include a health exception.The abortionist punctures the base of the baby’s skull in the brutal partial-birth abortion procedure.
        In 2003, Congress passed the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act. Signed by President George W. Bush, the ban was immediately challenged in federal court. Arriving at the U.S. Supreme Court for a second time, the partial-birth abortion ban was once again in the spotlight, garnering much attention due to the gruesome and inhumane procedure which it was attempting to ban. On April 18, 2007, the Court handed down its decision in the Gonzales v. Carhart case.

        1. I Seigel says:

          “partial birth” and “full term” are 2 completely different things. Please educate yourself.

          1. joe says:

            Partial birth abortions are ranged from 5 months through full term. There is one documented case of a full term baby being “aborted” __legally because one foot was not yet delivered__.

            Face it, abortion is murder, plain and simple.

          2. I Seigel says:

            One?!?!? Oh my! What condition was the rest of the baby in? Horribly deformed? Disease? Was the mother’s life in danger? You leave out that one valuable piece of info.

          3. joe says:

            You ghouls would have aborted Stephen Hawking because he was _obviously_ disabled.
            Abortion is murder.
            The harvesting and subsequent sale of body parts and organs from aborted babies is horrific, to say the least.

          4. I Seigel says:

            Lousy argument. Hawking was born perfectly normal. The onset of his disease occurred during his college years. Try again.

          5. joe says:

            I really don’t like the new generation of dictatorial types who have hijacked the label of “liberal”. You ginks are anything BUT liberal, you have no idea of what liberalism is about and you are doing everything that you can to bring about a nation under the thumb of insanity.
            You neo-libs are nothing less than ghouls – or rather zombies – under the control of any power whom you see as offering _you_ goods and services for which you do not pay.
            You are FOS so DUABA

          6. I Seigel says:

            Sorry, I don’t understand. Are you disputing my statement that Hawking wasn’t born with his illness?

            You know what I can’t stand? It’s conservatives who pass themselves off as Republicans. You’re not. You’re right-wing theocratic hypocritical fascists who want to stuff your born-again fundamentalism down the throats of the vast majority of the American populace.

            But we can still try to have an intelligent conversation if you’re amenable.

          7. joe says:

            LOL .. using my own method of subtle insults on me. I like that. Yes, let us continue but it will be a while. I’m about to start a 72 hour duty so it will probably be Thursday before I can get back to you, unless I can sneak a break in somewhere.

          8. I Seigel says:

            Joe, just follow this simple piece of advice: During your 72-hour duty, stay off eBay and Amazon. You’ll bring home more of your hard-earned paycheck that way. Take it from me (why not, eBay and Amazon did!).

          9. joe says:

            @i Seigel: LUNCH! (BTW, I don’t ebay or Amazon so I’m safe there)

            Here’s current stuff on partial-birth and post-partum abortions.

            The U.S. House of Representatives voted 248 to 177 on Friday afternoon to approve a bill that would give a born baby who survives an abortion the same protection under the law as “any person who comes to a hospital, clinic, or other facility for screening and treatment or otherwise becomes a patient within its care.”
            Under the bill, the Congressional Research Service explained in its official summary of the legislation, “An individual who commits an overt act that kills a child born alive is subject to criminal prosecution for murder.”
            The bill would also “require any health care practitioner who is present when a child is born alive following an abortion or attempted abortion to: (1) exercise the same degree of care as reasonably provided to any other child born alive at the same gestational age, and (2) ensure that such child is immediately admitted to a hospital.”
            Five Democrats voted for the bill, and all 177 votes against it were cast by Democratic members. One member, Rep. John Garamendi (D.-Calif.), voted present, and eight members, including three Republicans and five Democrats did not vote. (

            WHY would such a bill even be conceived, much less necessary?
            I’m back to the grindstone…c ya Thurs evening, probably.

  • Nancy says:

    I think they should just ban Abortion. It is murder of a living human being, with a beating heart. If these women cannot be careful and get pregnant, they should carry to term and give the baby up for adoption. What they are doing is MURDER, and, I hope everyone of them burn in HELL

    1. ShemSilber says:

      It is right to hate abortion, that is, prenatal (and in too many cases, postnatal) murder, but we, because we also have sins of which we need to be forgiven, should rather pray for them to come to repentance before the Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus), leave their evil behind them, and live. That is the preference of the Master, per Ezekiel chapters 18 and 33, and it should be ours, too. Shalom.

    2. obama says:

      Abortion is legal in all 50 states. Your Bible tells you to obey the laws of the land. Did the dog eat that page along with your homework way back when

  • Debbie says:

    Thank you CA.

    1. Hgeyer says:

      Thanking someone for standing in the way of progress in the search to find a cures for some terrible diseases …… REALLY? I guess you don’t know anyone dieing from cancer…..

      1. brtw says:

        And what progress has this research made?? Has anyone been cured or even helped? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So U R in favor or killing full term babies to save cancer patience? U R sick.

        1. Hgeyer says:

          We don’t kill people now to find donor organs for transplant but we use these organs to save lives! These fetuses are not terminated for these organs! The were terminated for other reasons and your solution is to NOT use these organs for research but to dispose of them? How wasteful and foolish…. The myth that this has not helped anyone is based on bullshit…..German measles, also known as rubella, “caused 5,000 spontaneous abortions a year prior to the vaccine,” said Dr. Paul Offit, an infectious-disease specialist at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. “We wouldn’t have saved all those lives had it not been for those cells.” Fetal tissue was “absolutely critical” to the development of a potential Ebola vaccine that has shown promise, said Dr. Carrie Wolinetz……

          1. ShemSilber says:

            Murder is murder is murder, and those developing humans have done nothing to deserve capital punishment. They will be both evidence and witnesses for the prosecution for all those who have perpetrated these murders against these helpless ones, for all those who have committed and refused to repent of this evil. The unrepentant perpetrators will did the second death from which there is no resurrection, while those murdered babies will live in perpetuity in the Presence of our Master Yahushua our Creator, omein.

          2. KDC says:

            Your killing helpless human beings, who will never have a chance at life, which is their God given right. Terminated? Murdered and killed without compassion for body parts. God will repay, for vengeance is His.

          3. Hgeyer says:

            I haven’t killed anyone…….

        2. I Seigel says:

          “…killing full term babies…” Huh? No one is advocating for aborting full-term babies. Just because you say a lie often enough, that doesn’t make it true.

          That’s like Jeb saying over and over again, to lots of applause, “He kept us safe”. Hah! Did George W become president on 9/12? We got attacked on HIS watch, after he was warned.

          I’m so sick of righties rewriting history to cover up their ineptitude, lies, and fraud.

          1. ShemSilber says:

            Left is the opposite of right. Also, wrong is the opposite of right. Do you see a connection? Wake up and smell the coffee already.

          2. I Seigel says:

            Smart is the opposite of dumb. Also, speak (the truth) is the opposite of dumb. Do YOU see the connection? Open your eyes, open your ears and mind, and see and hear the truth already.

          3. ShemSilber says:

            Go tell that to your chief rabbi, the Son of the Almighty, the Master Yahushua. He will set us all straight, nu?

          4. I Seigel says:


          5. ShemSilber says:

            Advocating? They’re doing it! And our “POTUS”–both in Springfield and in the District of Corruption–has been one of the proponents of postnatal murder, let alone prenatal. All of those babies are in the care and custody of the Master Yahushua our Creator, and they will be in a position to testify against their murderers in the Day of Judgment, the Master Yahushua our Messiah presiding. The unrepentant perpetrators will die the final, second, death, while the babies will live in perpetuity in peace and prosperity, nevermore the brunt of any evil, omein.

          6. I Seigel says:

            So in the scenario that you just outlined, things work out for the best in the end, and everyone gets justice. So what’s your problem?

          7. ShemSilber says:

            The problem is this encouraging message is burning inside me to get out to other people so that they can also be encouraged and therefore choose life, as the Master announced to us in Deuteronomy 30:15-20. He has no pleasure in the death of the wicked, per Ezekiel chapters 18 and 33, and has given us a responsibility as watchmen to sound the shofar, to warn the people so that they have a chance to escape with their lives and not be swallowed up in the coming holocaust, but saved from the second death and for the everlasting life that Messiah is zealous to give all who will choose it.
            It is about time for the Master to return to rule, though He may delay some to give more people time to make teshuvah (repent and turn from evil). So we have to do what we can, and leave the results to Him, for He is really the one doing the converting, He does the witnessing through us and then gives us credit as if we did it on our own. He always gives us better than we deserve, nu?
            Blessed be His Name, and blessed be His Kingdom from eternity to eternity, omein!

          8. I Seigel says:

            I don’t think that’s an encouraging message that’s burning to get out. I think that’s simply gas.

          9. ShemSilber says:

            What we as individuals think is not important. Truth is truth regardless of who discounts it, and lies are lies not matter who promotes them. We all need to apply the principle of 1 Thessalonians 5:21, to prove all things and hold fast what is right. Every individual needs eventually to find out what is gas and what is of importance. When it hits you, you will know, courtesy of your Creator.

  • mousekiller says:

    Naw, Nothing to get excited about.Ca is always spouting rhetoric then does the opposite. They just need time to figure how to get every one on board like it or not.

  • Downdraft 94 says:

    Look, scientists are saying only THEY are able to cure diseases, if only we would allow them to violate our lifeless fetuses…

    Chances are they will also be demanding someday in the future that you and I, as we become old and feeble, are the best candidates too for their experimentations.

    Well, scientists have been claiming their greatness and omnipotence for decades, perhaps centuries, and have come up with zilch.

    And once we open the box for them a bit more and start believing their claims, then we must have first discarded our FAITH in HIM and His demands of us.

    Yes, scientists have opened some light…not the common cold…but some light.

    The drug industry makes more on withholding the cures, and selling the “super-aspirins” that delay the inevitable.

    Do you REALLY believe God would show us how to cure ourselves by first telling us to destroy HIS creations, the fetuses, before birth so that we can then unceremoniously tear them apart and sell them to the scientist with the most money???

    So, we must believe that our lives are in His hands…if you claim to be a believer…but first we must stop worshiping humanism, politicians, the money changers…or once we stop catching up with ourselves and up into our cavity of darkness… as we run in circles!

    1. I Seigel says:

      I’d say you’re ready for experimentations now! Call 1-800-We-B-Morons and press 5 to speak to an operator. Call now. Operators are standing by.

      1. Lou Ann Strozyk says:

        Can’t you find anymore smart ass remarks? Hold a decent conversation with the rest of us or leave. We don’t all have to agree with one another, but we should be adult enough to agree to disagree. Why be such a disagreeable person? No one needs to die and have their body parts donated to science to save my life.

        1. I Seigel says:

          So just because YOUR life wont benefit from this medical research, you’re saying no one else should benefit either? Or are you willing to admit that much medical knowledge has been advanced by this research? And that many have benefitted and will continue to benefit in the future?

          1. Spunky387 says:

            Are you willing to admit that much scientific discovery occurred with the torture, experimentation and murder of millions of Jews, Russians and homosexuals in the concentration camps? So, based upon your theory, the ends justify means. Any person with half a shred of decency would say that the “scientific experiments” done on those that didn’t have a choice in the matter were atrocities. The other side would say that the knowledge gleaned was beneficial for science going forward. I, personally, don’t believe that it was worth any new scientific discovery, however great it might have been, to murder and experiment on people just to get an attempt at saving people in the future. If life is so worthless, then why wouldn’t YOU donate your life or your kids lives so that the OTHERS can benefit? You had asked the question about, “why shut down all of PP.” The government wouldn’t be shutting down PP, they would simply not be endorsing and funding it, especially if so many people don’t believe in it. For those that believe in it, they can fund it and they can have pledge drives like “Operation Smile” or churches, etc. Let’s see how much money they can raise showing murdering children compared to an organization that shows helping children like Operation Smile or St. Jude, etc.

            As to (probably your next question) – the correlation between the Nazi concentration camps and PP?? The Nazi’s were big supporters of Margaret Sanger (who founded PP) and they used her ideas for “Race cleansing.” She wanted to get rid of Blacks and Catholics (among others) and the Nazi’s wanted to get rid of Jews, Homos (among others).

            PP use/sale of babies, fetuses, parts (or whatever you want to call them) to possibly cure cancer is no cure at all, when PP is actually the cancer itself.

            It appears that you are set in your ways and believe what you believe and your are certainly entitled to believe what you want, as am I and every other person on earth. I certainly don’t think that I’m going to change your views with this post, but I just believe that anyone with their own beating heart that wants to volunteer to be harvested for science sake should have that right to “better” the future, but those that have it forced upon them should have someone stand up for them. All lives matter, no matter how old, young, sick or healthy – including yours and mine.

          2. I Seigel says:

            First off, I acknowledge there was a lot of torture, experimentation and murder by the Nazis. I am not willing to admit to much scientific discovery as a result, because I don’t consider myself knowledgeable in that area.

            Secondly, you mention that so many people support eliminating PP, or at the very least, defunding it. You must also realize that a great many people support the work they do and their continued funding. And I referred to shutting down the government, because as it appears now, that will be the tack the Conservatives take when the defunding effort fails.

            Thirdly, it seems we have a very fundamentally different of opinion on “life”. You seem to make no differentiation between a fertilized egg and a living breathing child or adult. I do make that distinction. There is no easy choice here between faith and science, and one’s belief on this single concept influences one’s viewpoints and politics on all connected issues. I am not saying you are wrong or I am right. The people here that do so seem to be incapable of talking rationally to anyone who doesn’t share their beliefs.

      2. ShemSilber says:

        I don’t usually hold with calling names, but I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

  • KDC says:

    “scientists who say such measures will set back efforts to cure the world’s deadliest diseases, including cancer, diabetes and Alzheimer’s.” This statement is a LIE! Big Pharma does not want these diseases cured because it’s a billion dollar industry for them. You don’t think they know how to cure cancer now? Sure they do. As long as it’s money in Big Pharma’s pocket, people will die for their lust of money. While I’m on topic, don’t be so quick to get those flu shots. Ever wonder why they’re free? They have Mercury in them and that’s a poison. Flu shots are a waste of time at your expense because they can never pin point which strain of flu will hit. In addition, you never know what else could be in that shot.

    1. ShemSilber says:

      For something around 50 years now I have been avoiding those flu and pneumonia shots, tetanus and all that, ever since the worst case of flu I ever had immediately followed a flu shot. In spite of the demands for shots for the children, mine made it through school without the shots, because I wrote notes telling the “authorities” of the ill effects of immunizations on both sides of their family, up to and including death. We will be better off when we are without these poisons, as we will be, for Big Bully Pharma is one of the evils that will be knocked out by the power of the returning Messiah, not very long from now, omein.

        1. ShemSilber says:

          You will find out who is a fool, per Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, and Philippians 2:10, when you, along with the rest of creation, bend the knee and confirm with you mouth that the Messiah Yahushua is the only one able to strengthen us for the tribulation ahead of us, and the only Way from mortality to everlasting life. (Name calling is such a juvenile pursuit. Grow up, in the Name of the Master Yahushua, omein.)

      1. KDC says:

        We aren’t in the 50’s anymore. But even back then they were pushing stuff that caused more problems than it cured! You can’t trust Pharmaceuticals at all and those that take kick backs. Use discretion.

        1. ShemSilber says:

          Don’t I know it. From smallpox vaccinations that I got in the 40′ and 50’s, I am suffering from psoriasis that generated first at the site of the application and spread, and even for a while covered much of my torso, legs and head. It is by the mercy and kindness of Messiah Yahushua our Healer that it is reduced somewhat, but it will be totally gone when He has returned to give His believers new bodies. Nevermore will we be sick or old or tired, and Big Bully Pharma will become forgotten by history. HalleluYAH!

          1. KDC says:

            Amen, brother!

    2. obama says:

      Foolish conspiracy rantings. You know absolutely nothing yet continue to spread your lies and misinformation to all that are too uneducated to understand.

      1. KDC says:

        Why don’t you go get a flu shot or something. Oh, you already have? That would explain the Mercury poison in your brain.

  • donemyhomework says:

    In terms of cancer research it’s bullshit. Because the drug companies and the medical community do not want cancer to be cured. They make a lot more money treating the disease than curing it. The whole cancer thing is a farce.

    1. KDC says:

      Absolutely! Doctor’s (some) are in Big Pharma’s pocket with their kick-backs.

    2. Lou Ann Strozyk says:

      I totally agree with you. Why would big pharma want cancer to be cured when they can charge a patient over $1,500. per treatment? I’ve been told, sometimes it is $2,500. for one treatment. I wish I knew my bible well enough to quote the exact verse, but there is one verse that says, “We may not do evil that good may come of it.”

      1. donemyhomework says:

        Romans 3: 8

      2. obama says:

        You are a true fool. Believing all of those conspiracy theories about Pharma. If a cure could be found, they would jump for joy. Pharmaceutical scientists devote their lives to trying to find cures for diseases. It’s a really tough job. And when they do find a cure (e.g. Hepatitis C), the profit-making insurance companies don’t want to pay for it despite the fact that paying a large amount up front, pays off over the long haul. But the insurance companies are not concerned about your health, only their revenue for the current quarter, thanks to the greedy Wall Street gamblers.

    3. I Seigel says:

      And Alzheimer ‘s, MS, autism, AIDS, Ebola, and birth defects? All farces, too?

      1. donemyhomework says:

        I only did research on cancer.

  • bones1941 says:

    California ? Never happen , not with Retread Brown at the hem . Democrats are behind this Plan Parent Hood crap . Now tell me who controls California?

  • J_R_K says:

    California is considering abortion restrictions even tougher than federal restrictions? California taking the lead in the right direction???? Somebody pinch me. I think I am sleeping at my compute desk. Having said that, something I never thought I’d ever say …. attaboy, California.

    1. disqus_tKlEuAw2uq says:


      1. J_R_K says:

        Maybe this is the first indication that they are becoming sick and tired of the pc crap they’ve imposed on themselves and spread to the rest of the country. I doubt it, but, who knows.

    2. joe says:

      Actually, there are quite many good, conservative people in California, it’s just that they are not noisy like the libs and LGBTQSAM crowd.

    3. I Seigel says:

      Not “California”. Just a couple Republican lawmakers. It wont go anywhere.

      1. J_R_K says:

        LOL…. I guess I’ll have to take your word for that… I sure wouldn’t bet against you on it. :o)

  • ShemSilber says:

    Prenatal murder in fact should not be permitted, let alone profiteering off the parts of those babies so murdered. In the Day of Judgment, the Honorable Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus) our Messiah presiding, these hundreds of millions of babies will be both witnesses and evidence for the prosecution of all who have not wholeheartedly repented and turned from such evil and turned to that same Master Yahushua to ask Him to cover such Torah violations in this worst-of-all holocausts, the mass murder of lives that the Master formed in their mother’s wombs and who were administered capital punishment for no cause whatever. Some have repented and have come out against these abominable and heartless practices, and halleluYAH for them. All of us, not only the abortionists, were a party by reason of our own Torah violations (Romans 3:23; 1 John 3:4) in the necessary death of our Messiah. All of us need to repent and turn to Him and His Way, His love of our Father’s Torah, so that we can be assured by His resurrection from the dead of everlasting life in peace and productivity, omein.
    Learn more of the truth that will make us all free at wwwdotyourarmstoisraelglobaldotcom and rejoice with the redeemed, omein.

    1. Hgeyer says:

      I guess you didn’t understand the part about them not profiting from it but simply recovering the actual costs incurred…… Most pro-lifers share that misconception!

      1. ShemSilber says:

        If that is so, that still does not absolve them of their guilt over the murders of these babies, which are human life formed in the womb by the Master Yahushua (Lord Jesus) from the time of conception until the time of their termination, whether that is while they are still in the womb or if they live to a ripe old age.

        May they see the light while they still can and turn from their wickedness and to the Master Yahushua for a makeover, learning to love the truth instead the Azazel’s bloody lies, omein.

        1. I Seigel says:

          Master Yahushua gave Man curiosity, knowledge and the ability to learn. He gave Man the ability to seek cures for his illnesses, of which research using fetal tissue is one aspect. If the Master didn’t want this, then Man would not be able to do it.

          Just like man is not able to affect the climate, as only the Master has that power.

          If the Master didn’t want Man to kill each other, then He wouldn’t have given us gunpowder and the means to make weapons. It’s a God-given right to have guns, right? Why would it be His choice for us to have them and not use them?

          1. ShemSilber says:

            From the beginning, we have had choices to make. The Master Yahushua, per the Father’s direction, told us to choose between good and evil, as in Deuteronomy 30:15-20: “15 See, I have set before you this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command you this day to love Yahuwah your Elohim, to have your walk in His Way, and to guard His Commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply: and Yahuwah your Elohim shall bless you in the land which you are going to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away, so that you will not hear, but shall be drawn away to worship other elohim, and serve them; 18 I declare to you this day, that you shall surely perish, and that you shall not prolong your days upon the land, which you pass over the Jordan to go to possess. 19 I call the heavens and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live: 20 That you may love Yahuwah your Elohim, and that you may obey His voice, and that you may cleave to Him: for He is your life, and the length of your days: that you may dwell in the land which Yahuwah swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”

            So, just because we can do evil things is no excuse, but if we stop making excuses and follow His loving instructions, the way of life given by Himself, the living Torah, then we will be among those whom He saves from the second death and takes home to the Promised Land in the upcoming Second Exodus, out of the nations where we have been scattered these thousands of years to a land flowing with milk and honey, living in peace and productivity of His blessings, in perpetuity, in the Presence of our Master Yahushua, omein.

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